The following is a conversation between Hagan and a graduate of Alia College. Names of people and institutions outside Alia have been omitted for privacy reasons.

H – Hagan (re-engagement program coordinator), K – graduate of Alia

H: So I wanted to ask you about what challenges you’ve had with attending school in the past.

K: So many challenges, obviously. It was particularly through year 9, it started at the end of year 8, being bullied and everything, and the start of year 9 it just got worse and I was finding every excuse under the sun to not go to school or, you know, I would go to school and say I’m sick can I go home or, you know, hide in the toilets and do everything I could to get away from everyone. I was losing sleep over it. It was pretty horrible.

H: So it was more to do with social anxiety?

K: And work. The academic part of the work as well. I was a kid that tried so hard but never got the marks that the kid that never studied got.

H: So can you tell me a bit more about how you felt about the work side of things? What things to do with work were making you feel so anxious?

K: It was just the workload at such a young age. I feel like it came out of nowhere. The pressure put on by the peers and teachers to perform to a certain standard, already talking about the future in year 9, year 8, and I was like, well, I just want to think abut the now.

H: What might have made you want to stay where you were?

K: If I’m completely honest, nothing. I hated it.

H: Of course once you hated it you didn’t want to stay.

K: At the start of year 7 it was great. I signed up for almost every single sport possible and I was really into it and everything. Anxiety wasn’t really there. I got bullied by a friend I came from primary with because I was transitioning into high school better than she was and she didn’t like that. That was a bit hard but the school got involved and things sort of settled down and everything. I can tell you year 7 was probably a great year. It was very competitive with all the girls though in terms of friendships, academics, sport, everything possible. But then it started going down hill probably from Term IV year 7 and just got worse.

H: Can you be more specific about some things that happened?

K: I suppose everyone just grew up and was finding their feet more in the school, you had social media involved which was a big one. You have boys because it was a single sex school. You’ve got the bitchiness and the work and everything, the social side and everything.

H: How long from when you stopped going to when you started coming here?

K: I had a good year off.

H: Where you didn’t go to school at all? Were you still enrolled?

K: I was still enrolled, I actually changed schools and was able to do two weeks at a new place. I did two weeks there and then was in hospital from then until the end… so about year nine term two those school holidays I was hospitalised for about three months or so, still no school or nothing until about year 10, when I was doing one class a week here. My build up here was very very gradual.

H: So the two weeks you went back?

K: It was a different school, I left [school 1] and went to [school 2]. And it was awesome. The people were lovely, it was co-ed, the work was a bit less pressure, in saying that I was on city experience for a week. But I think I was just so sick, mentally, sick in the head, that it was going so well and it sort of just all came out then. Whoever thought I’d end up in hospital? So I sort of stopped going to [school 1], transitioned into [school 2], everything was going great. Everyone was so lovely, the teachers were lovely, everyone’s so welcoming. Of course the anxiety of starting a new school was horrible. But I think it was going so well one day I was like, wow, I’m actually really sick. I was in sick bay, crying, couldn’t breathe, everything just came out I had bottled it up for so long.

H: So its almost like you finally felt relaxed…

K: I finally felt relaxed enough to be like I’m not ok, but I didn’t realise I was not ok. I was so sick. Yeah and two days after that I was in ICU. So it happened very quickly.

H: And a very physical response

K: And the sick bay were like, (shocked), and some of my friends have anxiety as well and they said it’s just anxiety but it just all came out.

H: So what services did you engage with once you were trying to get back to school?

K: I was with Alfred CYMHS on Nepean Highway. I had a team there, who admitted me in the first place. After I came out of hospital after about two or three months, I had to get used to the world again and everything. I had a psychologist, a team leader, a person doing the medicine side, like five people in my team, and two people for my parents, so when I had a session my parents would too. I had a teacher named L, and she found Alia somehow and gave my parents a list of schools and my parents thought why don’t we give this a go. L even came and visited Alia with me a couple of times but not often because I was so embarrassed. There were opportunities to do schoolwork at CYMHS but I refused to do group work there and everything so L actually found Alia.

H: Did you feel isolated at CYMHS?

K: I felt isolated in hospital. But at this stage I was at home with someone next to me all the time, like when mum and dad were at work my nonna or grandpa would come because someone had to be by my side all the time.

H: I didn’t realise you had been through this, to this extent. What were they worried about?

K: It was about committing suicide, and self harm. Because I’d gotten so comfortable in the hospital, I was thriving, they were like she needs to get back out there. For a while I was going home to sleep and coming back to the hospital during the day. It was a very long transition for me, from ICU to LCU to getting back home. I was still showing signs of self harm and not wanting to be around anymore but the only way to get over that was coming out of hospital. Because the medication and stuff was right so that started to work as well. And I couldn’t live for the rest of my life in hospital. And my parents were okay with taking that challenge of doing at home. Mum took her annual leave and had about six months off work. My parents, God bless them, honestly.

H: Do you know if there were people at CYMHS who were transitioning back into mainstream schools?

K: I don’t think so.

H: Was it all people around your age?

K: It was literally just like a counselling consultant, and I had my own team.

H: So they’re just figuring out how to help anybody.

K: Something tells me that most of those kids would have not gone back to school Not that I saw any other kids but most of the kids L worked with struggled to go back to school. It’s funny I still remember her name because she played such a massive role. But I hated her because she made me do stuff I didn’t want to do. I bloody love her now, look where I am now. But I just, I hated going to sessions and her asking me questions. I was the stubbornest child.

H: What were some of the things that helped you to transition in to coming back to school, and starting at Alia?

K: Definitely the routine to suit me. Like I said it was very progressive coming back to school, at the start it would have been just one class a week. Just psychology then I went home.

H: So you just rocked up at the start of, period 3, say, and then go home once it was over.

K: Yep. But even before classes it was just, let’s try and walk in the door.

H: So what changed from when you couldn’t come through the door to when you were able to do it? What helped you?

K: To be honest what helped me was I was introduced to someone. I’ve always wanted to tell Bob (Alia’s principal), you know how he likes to just throw people in? Well with some kids with serious anxiety it can make things ten times worse. So I remember walking out on my first day and Ashlee (accounts assistant at Alia) came to speak to me. I remember it very clearly, I was at the letterbox just out the front thinking I’m not going in, this place is fucked up, I didn’t like the vibe of it at all, everyone just looks weird, everyone’s got coloured hair. And then it wasn’t I was introduced to J (an Alia student)…

H: Who had coloured hair and was weird.

K: That’s right but it made it so much better to have a familiar face and she was in the French Room and I was crying my eyes out and she was there.

But I’m kind of saying this our of order. The first day I was sort of just thrown in. My dad waited for me and couldn’t get me in, but eventually I went in and M gave me a tour. It was surreal. I was sitting in class, and I broke down saying I know no one, that’s when I went to the letterbox, Ashlee came out. I didn’t know J by this point. Ashlee came out and said let’s give it another go, and dad was almost in tears because this was like the last chance, where are we going to go if this doesn’t work. Someone asked if they should go and get someone and I said please, I just need someone to take me under their wing. And that was good, I met J, added on facebook, sort of had just that one person.

I was still working with L week by week, then. I was just doing one class which made it difficult to form relationships and friendships. Which was pretty important to me but I was like, these guys see me for one hour, I’m still the new girl. So that was really hard. And it wasn’t until I sort of came into a bit of a routine I was like okay, let’s go the next step and do a whole day.

H: Who made that decision?

K: It was all up to me. But it was prompted. If it was all up to me I would have just done one class for the rest of my life. People were asking what do you think, do you reckon you’re ready? And after three weeks or so I sort of got used to the place and by the end of three weeks no one would even look at me, no one gave a shit, that was just me. And I was like, okay, everyone smiling at me, and I took it further and further and further and there you go.

H: It’s really great to hear all these details. I’m starting to get the feeling that details are so important when people are feeling anxious. Like one thing could go the way they aren’t expecting and everything falls apart from that moment.

K: I also feel like no one could understand exactly how I was feeling. Like, I would try to express something and… honestly my parents were rock and soul, because they kept saying I understand, I understand, and I knew they didn’t understand but what else could you say to your child? It was also really hard on my sister and brother. My sister was still in primary school and she was like, what is going on? And now, it’s not as hard anymore, but that transition, my sister wasn’t sure why her mum was home for such a long time and how do you say to her that her sister doesn’t want to be alive anymore? My brother is 18 months older than me and he sort of got the gist and was really supportive. And everyone else was sort of tiptoeing around me and I hated that. I was like, I’m still normal I’m just very sick. Stop being nice! Be like you were before I got sick. Stop with the presents!

H: In this time, I imagine you were talking to Bob a lot? Who was the person you first made contact with when you were enrolling?

K: It was Francesca (Bob’s assistant). I remember L was communicating with Francesca via email.

H: So she was the first staff member you met? What are some of the things that made it easier for you, or things that made you feel bad, when you met them?

K: I definitely thought there was no pressure from the teachers. They always came up and introduced themselves if I was the new person in class, or after class they would say hi. And I also felt there was no pressure in the class to say anything. You know how when no one says anything in the class the teacher just starts picking people? For any anxious kid their heart just drops. When you start picking people it’s like, oh shit. It’s the worst feeling in the world. And I remember all my teachers just let me be. And that’s sort of how I became more comfortable. They didn’t ask me about homework or anything, they let me approach them. They were so approachable, maybe not in the first couple of weeks because of my anxiety I couldn’t actually do it. But there wasn’t a halo around me like the new girl sitting there. It’s nice to introduce and everything but there’s no limelight.

H: You don’t want people to feel ignored but you don’t want them to feel the opposite of that.

K: It’s hard to get in the middle of it, because for a while I thought nobody likes me I don’t know anyone but then I realised that’s just how Alia goes. If they don’t know you then they’ll smile, but, they’re not doing anything wrong. They just don’t know you. But I always made a conscious effort that if a new person came in to Alia I would always say hi, because if anything that was me.

H: But didn’t you worry you were shining a spotlight on them?

K: No because I didn’t do it in front of everyone. They would just be sitting on the couch and I would be sitting next to them and say hi, how are you going. But that wasn’t until year 11 when I found my feet. And then in year 12, obviously, I was going crazy in a good way because I’d found my feet. I was drawing penises on the board!

The following is a brief conversation about the Re-Engagement Program at Alia that Hagan was in the process of setting up.

H: I really appreciate you talking to me about this stuff. At the moment I’m setting up a program to re-engage students who haven’t been to school for a while. Listening to you makes me wonder about a couple of things.

The idea at the moment is to set up a program, and maybe one day a separate campus, that’s related to Alia but doesn’t have the same name, for people who want to re-engage with the school so they can have a transition that is a bit less haphazard than the experiences that a lot of students have trying to come in here. I’m thinking we could have a couple of hours in the middle of the day and we can use the PE Room for people to come in if they want to work on their skills so they’re not falling behind in class, work on a project that interests them. We do this class two hours every day, it’s always happening even if nobody shows up to provide that consistency and structure for students that are trying to get back into it. And once they feel their confidence build back up they move into a classroom.

That’s pretty much where it’s at now. Listening to you makes me think about a couple of things but what do you think about what I’ve just said?

K: I love the idea of a program. I think if it goes ahead Alia should be giving that as an option if you know the child’s a school refuser. They can be on trial and everything but they can just come in for that two hours. They don’t have to come straight in to Alia. But it depends on the student.

H: It’s not for people to go back into from school. If you are going to classes and you’re coming to school and some things happen that make that harder it’s not something you go into. If you end up refusing to come to Alia for a period of time and you want to transition back that would be the program for you. But it’s not like, “so and so doesn’t come to class so they need to go to your program.”

Basically, if it had been happening when you were coming, that’s what you would’ve done as well as or instead of the three or four periods of psychology a week. But if you prefer to do that then you can. That’s the idea. We often have students who refuse to come to school who end up doing really long trial periods and then just disappear. Or maybe their trial periods wouldn’t have been so long if they’d had a slightly more structured way to come into the school. I mean, there’s no certain way to do it, really, but it provides another option that’s maybe a bit more flexible. Because sometimes those students, because they’re not here, they kind of just never get on the radar. You know how it is: a kid makes an inquiry and comes in and speaks to Bob, none of the teachers actually know them, can we send them home some work, everyone’s doing other stuff, we wonder if they’re even at this school, maybe we do send them some work or we never hear from them again. So maybe instead of teachers sending home work, my job would be the contact to try to make that happen and ultimately try to reel them in to the program. That’s where it’s at at the moment, anyway.

K: My sister at the moment is struggling with school. I could ask her if something like this would help.

H: When you’re trying to find out what people need, if you give them an option they often just say yeah that sounds good. Whereas if you don’t give them an option they need to tell you what they want. I was just talking to a student earlier today who is a school refuser and he might be interested in coming to the program, but I didn’t want to just say, well, this is how it is. Some people want structure because it takes things out of their hands.

K: But everyone is so different you can’t win.

H: But I was really trying to just sit back and get a feel for what he wanted before I laid it out. Because it would be easy for him to say, I’m feeling a bit anxious right now, I’ll agree to whatever you want and then go home and think, forget it. I’m never going back there.

K: I mean, what you’re doing is a really hard job because everyone is so different. How do you accommodate everyone. The program sounds great and everything but it’s bloody hard at the same time. As you said, some people like structure, some people don’t like to be told what to do. I think that one on one would really work.

H: I think if you remove judgement and morality from it you can kind of say, some people like this, some people like that and there is no better or worse.

K: And if you’re running it and you know that child well enough that you know they need instructions after class you can just go to that child after class and speak to them.  And I feel like Alia is really good with that. I mean not as much in the higher years, because everyone has found their feet in year 12 and you have to do what you have to do. But even in year 11, or maybe year 10, it’s sort of like, “I’d like you to have this completed by Monday” but never “if you don’t have this completed by Monday!”. I think that prompts people to think they might give it a go, because even if I don’t get it done I’m not going to sit in detention or whatever. But what you’re doing is bloody difficult, I’m interested to see what happens.

H: Me too that’s why I’m doing it.

K: It sort of makes you look back from where I am today and think, wow, what the hell?

H: Hearing you say the stuff about going to hospital, but not even that, even when I saw you around the school when you were first here, I could tell you were thinking this place is weird and these people are too weird. You look at someone, you judge. It’s sort of the next level of human to not let the judgement effect your behaviour. But you didn’t look like someone who was thinking this is where I want to be. You looked like you were a bit embarrassed to be at Alia at first.

K: I was very mainstream. I was embarrassed to be at Alia but now I’m like, whatever, you do what you want to do. It’s fine.